"I don't like personal confrontation. I don't want to get into a fist fight? Have you seen me? I'm not an imposing presence."
– Andy Kindler
Andy Kindler: Did you see the [presidential] debate?
Guy MacPherson: Parts of it.
AK: I think that [John] Kerry did good.
GM: And that's who you want?
AK: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you Republican? No, you're not Republican.
GM: Nobody in Canada likes George Bush.
AK: (laughs) I know. The Conservatives in Canada are to the left of the Democrats here.
GM: Pretty much, yeah. No, there are some people who like Bush, but they're in the very, very minority.
AK: I listen to that show As It Happens and I just love that show.
GM: Oh really? You listen on the internet?
AK: No, it's on public radio here. And it's just great. I'm like, "Oh my God, everybody sounds more intelligent." And when I was in England, too. But I thought Kerry did great, so we'll see what happens.
GM: Were you watching CNN?
AK: I have all three going. All three TV sets going.
GM: Three TV sets? Mr. Hollywood!
GM: Did you shoot any of them out?
AK: You mean Elvis style?
AK: Yeah, I tried to do that.
GM: I saw on CNN where they had a room full of undecided voters. And I go, "That's bullshit. They're not undecided."
AK: Yeah, they just want to be on TV.
GM: Exactly. And it helps their candidate when they say, "I was undecided, but now I'm voting for this person." And people think, "Wow, he must be good."
AK: They must have been swayed.
AK: But we'll see what happens. I just to hope to God he doesn't get re-elected.
GM: He comes across to us – maybe to Republicans he comes across as sort of folksy and a down-home good guy – but he just comes across as really stupid.
AK: Well, I think the Republicans know that he's stupid, but I think that's how conniving they are. They'd rather have a guy who goes along with the system. I mean, they could have nominated McCain, but they didn't. They'd rather have the guy they can control. It's pretty pathetic.
GM: So you think he's not calling the shots?
AK: I'm not such a conspiracy theory guy. I think he does to a certain extent. But he has no intellectual curiosity as a person, really. So he may call the shots, but to get his opinions on stuff, he basically goes to these people he thinks know the answers. And can you imagine if he had been president when the Cuban Missile Crisis happened. I mean, Kennedy over-ruled the generals. The generals wanted to do a pre-emptive strike against the Soviet Union. Had they done that, we might not be here today talking about it. Because he was bright enough to be able to, and was intellectually curious enough to say "Okay, I want to get different points of view." But this guy would never... He would have just said listened to Cheney.
GM: A few months ago I was thinking Kerry was probably going to win this thing, but now it seems to be swinging back the other way.
AK: Uh yeah, but he might turn that around, though. I think so. I'm an eternal optimist... except when it comes to bad comedy.
GM: Speaking of which, I got the chance to see your State of the Industry address last summer, a year ago.
AK: The 20th anniversary one.
GM: That's right, yeah. The industry eats it up, but does it ever come back to bite you in the ass?
AK: I think it always does to a certain degree. I'm saying stuff about Michael Eisner and personal comments. I think it was this last year I said, "How does Michael Eisner keep his job? He hires Ovitz. Because I guess Milocovic wasn't available. Then Ovitz was a disaster and they had to pay him off 90 million dollars. And he still kept his job. Once when I was a bartender, I forgot my vest. They wrote me up." You know, I'm naming names.
GM: You're on Raymond, right?
AK: Yeah, recurring.
GM: Is that ABC?
GM: Ah, okay. I was going to say... But you're not on [Disney-owned] ABC.
AK: Well, I mean, I piss off people everywhere. But you know, the thing is the larger issue really is now not so much... Even more than talking about the executives, I think the other thing that's been problematic in a way is that I talk about other comedians. A lot of comics don't do that, really, I don't think. And I try to keep my targets high. I'm not going to publicly say stuff about a comic who may not be that funny, but what's the point? I have to have a point in why I'm doing the joke. So I go after people like Leno.
GM: Because he's a good target to go after.
AK: My new line is, "I just found out I'm doing The Tonight Show... in 2009."
GM: That's when a lot of good comics will get on.
AK: When Conan takes over?
AK: And then I follow it up by saying, "Well, actually, I just spoke to Conan. They want to push it back to 2010."
GM: Is that a good thing that Conan's taking over?
AK: I think so. I like Conan. I think he's funny. I mean, I have to be honest, I don't watch him as much as I watch Letterman. Letterman is the king to me. But Conan's funny.
GM: I think he tries a little too hard a lot of the time. He keeps interrupting and doing his little shtick.
AK: His head shaking things?
GM: And "Meowww!"
GM: Or whatever it is that he does.
AK: Yeah. That's true. He also takes a long time to set up bits.
GM: I just wonder about saying you're going to have a certain guy in five years. Like, who knows what's going to happen in five years. The public tastes can change so easily.
AK: That's what people were saying, like, in five years, people might not even be watching, because of TiVo and all this stuff, people are going to be watching The Tonight Show at three in the afternoon. So obviously Conan must have put pressure on, and say he's leaving, so they felt they had to do this. And Leno's such a people pleaser. He doesn't want to make waves. His whole thing was, (in a high Leno voice) "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't want there to be a lot of stuff in the press. It's a dynasty, you're supposed to hand it from one person to the other." Oh right, like when you got in the middle of Letterman getting it? He's so disingenuous. He's the king of disingenuey.
GM: But he's also known as a super nice guy, isn't he?
AK: Uh, you know, I think that's his schtick. I mean, I not saying he's like a mean guy or runs around beating people up. But he's got his schtick to be the guy who is nice. But look, he claims that Helen Kushnick planted those things in the paper about Johnny being old. I don't buy it when people go, "It's the people around me who are nasty. I'm nice." I think it's his shtick. But worse than that, the show's terrible now.
AK: Well, I mean I respected him in the '80s. I don't know if I saw his act from the '80s now if I'd still laugh. He's never been good on The Tonight Show.
GM: I've always wondered that because I used to go, "Oh! Leno's going to be on Letterman tonight!" It was something to watch.
AK: That's the irony. It was Letterman. Letterman is the guy who made him look good.
GM: And I don't know if I were to see that same act now if I would go, "What was I thinking?" or "He really was good."
AK: A lot of things definitely don't hold up. Also, once you think someone's not funny, then you can't get that back. You're looking at him through hacky glasses.
GM: Have you ever met him?
AK: Yes, I have. I did a benefit once at the Improv. And he was on the benefit. I was introducing him. So I introduce him and he comes up and says, (in high Leno voice) "You hate doing this, doncha? You hate it, you hate it! This kills ya!" Because he knows when people talk badly about him.
GM: You hate doing what?
AK: That I had to bring him up. Because I brought him up. You know, "Our next guest is the host of The Tonight Show." He knows that I hated having to be civil to him or something like that.
GM: Do you often meet people that you skewer?
AK: My most embarrassing moment was – and I've told this story a lot – was that when I was making fun of Leno, my wife's a photographer and she was doing a photo shoot. And the mother of the model said, "Hey, Jay Leno's down the street and his car broke down. Does anybody want to go over and look at it?" So for some reason I thought it would be hilarious to go see Leno with one of his crazy cars, one of those antique cars he loves. "Oh, yeah, I'll go down and look at it with you." So as I'm walking down there, she says to me, "Do you like Leno?" I go, "Nah, I'm not really a fan. And he knows that. He knows when people don't like him." And that kind of stuff. And then we get close to the car and like an idiot I'm thinking... And she's going, "Oh, I like him a lot." And I'm thinking we're just going to walk by him but not near him. Just to see it. She starts to make a bee-line as we cross the street. I go, "Do you want to go closer?" She goes, "Yeah." So she starts to make a bee-line to go up to him. Now I'm all of a sudden, "Oh my God. I've made a horrible mistake." So I continue walking past her as if I don't know her. I continue walking briskly to, like, an underpass under the freeway where no one ever walks. And there's no store there. I'm not in a jogging outfit. And then I turn around and I see that she's talking to Leno and she's saying, "Yeah, and that's Andy Kindler." And I hear him from like... "Andy Kindler?!" And I walk up to him. And he goes, "Yeah, that's the guy who hates me!" And then she starts saying, "Why do you hate him?" And he actually said, "No, no, it's okay to hate. It's okay." So that was very embarrassing because I was the idiot. What was I walking around for? And I don't like to confront anybody. I really don't like the idea. And I've never it at the State of the Industry where someone I was really going after was, like, front and centre.
GM: Would you take it out if you saw them there?
AK: You know, it's a weird thing. I was always thinking about that. It's like, should I do it right in front of someone? I don't know. Probably if it was a major part of the speech, I'd have to do it. But I would be frightened. (laughs) I don't like personal confrontation. I've done it on TV.
AK: I did stuff like, "A lot of people say they like Will and Grace. Not only that show not my cup of tea; that show makes me hate tea." I did that on Letterman. I've made fun of other comics on Letterman. I've made fun of Adam Sandler on Conan. No, I've definitely gone after people on... It's not the televised part. It's the just being right in front of them while I do it. I'm not hiding it, but I don't like personal confrontation. I don't want to get into a fist fight? Have you seen me? I'm not an imposing presence.
GM: No, you aren't.
AK: (laughs) Thanks for rushing to my defence. Thanks for piling on.
GM: Do you work on the State of the Industry address all year?
AK: I really do work on it all year. I have all my books dated. And the day after the State of the Industry, I write down what the date is and I start working on stuff. However, some of the stuff just doesn't play out by the... Like I'm always looking forward to the fall season. It just came out now, but by next summer, it's sometimes hard. Some of the stuff won't last all year. And then I start cramming.
GM: How long have you been doing this?
AK: I think next year's going to be the tenth year, if they have me back, which I think they will.
GM: They have to. It's the talk of the fest.
AK: That's what I say! (laughs) As long as everyone likes it and I enjoy doing it, which so far I do... And I've also been hosting the alternative show there, which is a big success. Well, not money-wise (laughs), but I loved it.
GM: What is the state of the industry? Is it getting better? Is it getting worse? Is it about the same?
AK: I think there's no turning back now for the major networks. Like, I was watching Last Comic Standing, which to me is just the end of comedy, really. Comedy's already cheesy, and then you're going to make it even more hideous by having a contest involved in it. And then I'm watching Last Comic Standing last night and they have a commercial for the World's Biggest Loser. And it's a reality show for people who are really overweight and they're going to compete to lose weight. To be the world's biggest loser. They're tempting them with cupcakes. I don't think there's any way to recover from things being that bad. So I think on the major networks, it's going to get more and more depressing and I don't think you can turn back from it. And Jason Alexander's new show looks terrible. And there's only a few sitcoms they're even doing. So it has not gotten better; it's gotten worse. Except, I think, on cable things are better. Like HBO does some great things. There are great things that are happening, but not on ABC.
GM: Maybe they could combine Last Comic Standing and The World's Biggest Loser and have Ralphie May.
AK: He would be the... (laughs) He was on last night.
GM: He's still on?!
AK: That's the thing, too. They've completely diluted the product now. They keep having another contest. The person gets to be the last comic standing for like a week and a half.
GM: I've heard you say that anytime an audience is involved in voting, the worst comic is going to win.
AK: Yeah, if you do majority rules on it, then you would...
GM: Then Dhat Phan is the winner.
AK: Yeah. And it'll never be good. If Van Gogh or Picasso had people voting on every segment of his painting... "And how many of you think... Log on now! And tell us whether Matisse should do a still life or he should become an abstract..." I wish I knew more art terms to flesh out this joke.
GM: I can't help you there.
AK: You can't help me.
GM: So it's the producers who rile you up more than the comics on it? Or both?
AK: Well, the comics... I try to do this thing where I say... I try not to blame the comedians. I feel like they're just trying to get work. But I couldn't do it. So I try to give the comics a break because they just want to work and they want to make money. But at some point I think you have to look at yourself in the mirror and say this can't be. Just the idea that you create these fake clubs, too: The Last Comic Standing Theater. So my impulse is to always blame the executives. When in doubt, blame the executives. How can you go wrong? And Jay Mohr. You can blame him, too. "Who will decide? You will decide! Until there will be... just one comic standing."
GM: I never got to read it, but you wrote the Hack Handbook.
GM: When was that?
AK: That was, like, back in 1991 or '92. The National Lampoon, they did a whole comedy issue because comedy was like at the peak of the boom when every city had a million clubs. And it was just about to crash, and that's when they did this whole issue about it. So it was kind of cool. And I just kinda plugged in how you can... different methods that you can use to kill. Like a sentimental closer. "My dad's sick, and boy it would be great if he knew that I did well."
GM: Ralphie May did that.
AK: Oh, he did? I heard that. I missed that one.
GM: He was in tears telling his dad's favourite jokes on stage.
AK: Ohhh... (laughs) I don't mean to laugh. And then there's all the different conventions, or whatever the word is. Everything was "from hell"; everything was "on steroids". Then "Steroids are just vitamins with an attitude!" Actually, the genesis of the State of the Industry was that we did a live demonstration of hack comedy in Montreal. That was the first year I did like a special programming thing. And everyone seemed to enjoy that. And they said, "Hey, do something next year." And that's when my agent came up with the idea. He actually named it the State of the Industry. And the rest is minor history. The rest is obscure, obscure comedy trivia history. (laughs)
GM: How long have you been performing?
AK: I was in a comedy duo when I first started. Andy and Bill.
GM: It wasn't hack?
AK: Well, I think we all start out as hacks. Not purposely. What you think is funny when you start... When I first started I was like, "I really want the crowd to like me." So I really tried to tailor my act for the crowds. And then if you have any self-worth, at some point you then develop your own act. But some people go, "Hey, I want to keep going down this road."
GM: Because it works.
AK: Because it works. And then that's how you get, like, Carrot Top. "Hey, it works. Why should I change?" Or you get the Angry Comic. "I'm angry about everything!" Or whatever shtick works for people. And that can be a tremendous trap, I think. Or boring. So then you start to change when you find your own voice and you start to grow. But the duo, some of the stuff we did was funny.
GM: And when was this?
AK: 1984. I've been doing comedy for 20 years. But 18 years on my own.
GM: What happened to Bill?
AK: Bill is a therapist.
GM: A funny therapist.
AK: Yeah. He is really funny. Don't kid yourself.
GM: When you did the Hack Handbook in '91, you were established?
AK: I'd been on the road for like four or five years. I went on the road in like April on 1987 and I was on the road probably for like five years. I want to say '92 now on the Hack Handbook. I don't know. One of those years. I was on the road for five years, like 30, 40 weeks a year. And I came off the road and I don't know how many people knew who I was. I mean, I hadn't done much TV. I had done some TV. I did the Young Comedians special in '91 or '92, as well. So that was kind of like a break. I remember the Hack Handbook really, I had no idea that people would like it that much.
GM: You ever thought of putting that into a book?
AK: The problem now is that it's no longer... There's hacks, but they're not as organized. (laughs) It's not exactly the same where people are doing the Jack Nicholson impression. I have been doing a bit where, you know how everybody in the '80s was doing the airline pilot bit? Like, "Khkhkhkh... This is your pilot..."? So I'll be doing, "Uh, this is your captain. If you look out the left side of the plane, it's 1985 and there's a comic doing a McNuggets joke." One line I said about Last Comic Standing at Montreal is, "Some people feel it's the worst TV show ever. And others say it might be the worst thing ever."
GM: So your handbook seems to have worked. There are fewer hacks now.
AK: Uh, you think so?
GM: Isn't that what you said?
AK: No. I say the boom is over because there's not as much work. So yes, by definition there's less hacks. But the percentage is still as high.
GM: And they're just less identifiable? Or less organized?
AK: Well, they do... Like, I was going to do a night at one of the local clubs here called Crowd Pleasers. It's going to be an update of the Hack thing. I haven't done it yet, but it's going to be the current version of that. I think I could do a current version of it. Like, for example, there's the Christian comic. So that would be in the new version. The Christian comic. And my friend Josh Weinstein – not of The Simpsons but the other Josh Weinstein – he pointed out that there are a lot of reminiscences-type comics now. "Remember Silly Putty?"
GM: That's what John Heffron does.
AK: Oh, he does? (laughs)
GM: Well, not Silly Putty. But every joke people are just laughing at their memories. The childhood thing.
AK: And I'm not even laughing. Neither one of us are really laughing. Are we really?
GM: The Slip'n'Slide [Dane Cook's bit].
AK: That's the whole thing with the I Love the '80s and I Love the '90s. That's the same thing.
GM: It's not based on a joke. It's based on, "Yeah, that was funny when I was a kid and I used to do those things."
AK: Right, right. I think there's a kind of shoddy attempt to slap on a punchline. Like, "You try Silly Putty, and you get a thing, and, uh, you know. You get a cartoon that looks like, uh...". See, I can't...
GM: "Something really funny."
AK: "Something crazy." And then you fall down for a half-hour. "You do the Slip'n'Slide. That's great until you break your LEG!" Something like that. You hit it hard at the end. The other thing I've been saying is we should decide everything with these kinds of contests: Last Scientist Standing. That's how we should pick our physicists. "Nice theory, Einstein, but you've been voted out of the laboratory."
GM: Your style is almost meta-comedy, isn't it? Where you're constantly remarking on the process while you're doing it.
AK: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't use that word because it would sound like something I was packaging: "Andy Kindler: The Meta-Comedian." "Yes, sir, and let me explain why." Yeah, but it's really kind of firmly rooted in the Woody Allen, Albert Brooks school of.... Letterman, very rooted in Letterman. I mean, I loved the way Letterman would always comment on the joke. And Leno really doesn't seem to. (high Leno voice) "Yeah, John Kerry went swimming today. And instead of a dive, he did a FLIP-FLOP! Hee-hee-hee."
GM: And then he explains it three times.
AK: Yeah. "Because a flip-flop...". And Carson never took the jokes seriously. So I'm kind of in that school. And also I've never been able to... I don't like the idea that you kill as a comic.
GM: What do you mean?
AK: You just get a roll going.
GM: Yeah, I know. But why don't you like that?
AK: Because it feels uncomfortable. I want to do well. But I kind of want to break the rhythm up so it's not so much like a speech. So it's more in the moment. And also I found a few years in that when things weren't going well, I felt better about it.
GM: Carson, I'm assuming, would purposely bomb so he could joke about it. Do you ever do that?
AK: I claim not to do that. But one thing I do have a tendency to do is, which I've noticed other comics doing and I've noticed the same thing about myself, is that I assume things are going worse than they actually are a lot of the times. I go, "These people don't like me." The other thing is, I also learned on the road that people would get into, like, a coma, where they just want to be entertained at, kinda thing. So to break up the rhythm, I would just get angry. I would do something just so they would listen and don't just go on automatic pilot.
GM: Do you have a map inside your head of where you're going throughout the whole evening?
AK: Yeah. And the thing that's hard for me – and has always been hard for me – I've figured out no good method to overcome, except a lot of times I'll use index cards. So that opens up a whole kettle of "why are you using index cards?" I've never been able to memorize my act because a lot of comics do it the same way a lot: the haircut bit goes into the cheesecake bit. I don't have that. So a lot of times my mind will go blank. So I have a general idea of where I want to go with things, and I just want to be able to speak free if anything comes up, to go down that route.
GM: Have you ever been to Vancouver before?
AK: No, I'm looking forward to it, though, because years ago I was on part of the western Yuk Yuk's tour. That's where I met Brent Butt, who I love.
GM: He's great.
AK: I can't wait to see his show. I heard it's great.
GM: It's really good.
AK: And everybody must be thrilled about, huh?
GM: More than a million a week, which, for Canada is like playoff hockey numbers. It's incredible.
AK: Wow! He must be so happy. And nobody deserves it more than him. He's funny from the first time I ever saw him. So I used to work western Yuk Yuk's and I would do British Columbia. So I got close a lot, but never Vancouver. I did these one-nighters. Towns that smelled like they were lumber mill-type towns. And those were pretty horrible one-nighters. Like doing Swift Current and Medicine Hat. So I'd fly over Vancouver a couple times and I'd say, "Oh my God, it's just beautiful down there."
GM: The audiences here are not typically the most giving. There's a higher PC content here.
AK: People get a little shocked sometimes? I don't mind it as long as the audience doesn't turn on me. Like, I went to London and it was fun to a certain degree. But there's this one thing where they encourage heckling. I don't like that.
GM: No, I don't think you'll find anyone turning on you here. We're too polite.
AK: (laughs)You like living there?
GM: Oh, yeah...You used to be a correspondent on The Daily Show?
AK: Yeah, I did a thing called TV Guy.
GM: Was that with Jon Stewart?
AK: Yeah, it was with Jon Stewart. I did, like, I think five of them, or something.
GM: What happened?
AK: You know, it was one of these things where I was on the west coast, and they were on the east coast. That was one of the excuses they gave. "Ah, you're on the west coast." Yeah, I can see there's no way to make that work.
GM: "That's never been done before."
AK: Yeah, see, I understand that. So I was getting all these weird notes. I think Jon Stewart's hilarious. To me the job was simple. I was supposed to be a TV critic. I'd take a look at the shows and I would criticize them. And they kept saying, "What is the theme? How does it tie into what we're doing?" What's the theme? I'm supposed to be a TV critic! And I don't know, but in the back of my mind I was wondering, I wonder if they got nervous about me making fun of all these TV shows. They make fun of politics. I don't know how much they go after TV. But there seems to be this thing where I got the feeling they didn't want to go too far against the hands that... I don't know.
GM: Was this before you got Everybody Loves Raymond?
AK: Oh, no. I've been on Everybody Loves Raymond since 1996.
GM: Oh. I guess I should watch sometime.
AK: And it's the final year, too. I'm on about two episodes a year.
GM: Would you be making fun of that show, too?
AK: I'm not crazy! I think, of the sitcoms that are on, I think it's pretty smart. I like Ray. I always thought Ray was... Ray was on the Young Comedians special with me.
GM: He was a great standup.
AK: So I rooted very much for him. And I think Phil's really funny. He's the creator. There are a lot of standups who write on the show. Lou Schneider and [unintelligible]. I make fun of all the shows that copied Raymond. Like King of Queens. Yes, Dear. That was a couple years ago. There's a schlebby guy and a hot wife.
GM: Because you're the industry critic, you don't seem to be a sitcom-y guy. But you've done Martin, Ellen, Raising Dad.
AK: The thing is, I don't know if ironic is the word, but I grew up on sitcoms, so I want them to be better. I loved Mary Tyler Moore, I loved The Honeymooners, I loved Dick Van Dyke, I loved all those shows. That's why I think those days are over for the regular networks. But on cable, I loved The Office on BBC.
GM: I never got to see that, but I heard good things about it.
AK: Incredible. Obviously Larry Sanders. So it's not the forum that bothers me, it's what's happened to it. Like Jason Alexander was hilarious on Seinfeld. Now all of a sudden he's some wacky dad. It just seems so forced. And I don't think it can be resuscitated on the big three. But I'm always willing to hope differently.
GM: So this is the last season. What do you have coming up?
AK: One thing I'm very excited about was that my wife and I, we produced and she directed me doing standup at a club down here called M-Bar. We did a four-camera shoot. We edited down and now we're trying to sell it.
GM: As a standup special.
AK: Yeah, it's like 47 minutes long. And a friend of hers wrote music for the Eagles, and I wrote music with him for it. And I sang, like music coming in and out of the opening and the close. And I'm really proud of it. We spent, like, the whole year working on it, like dogs and spent all of our money on it. And then I'd like to get my website going for crying out damn loud.
GM: Yeah. Why don't you have one? Everyone has one.
AK: I have all the information for it. I have everything kind of ready to go. It's just I'm behind... In a way my organizational skills are good, but with stuff like that I'm late to the game. But it's coming soon, as we say. And then I'm pitching stuff now to sell. I'm pitching this thing with these guys who do this website called datelinehollywood.com. And it's actually very, very funny. And their stuff is similar to my stuff, so we're going around pitching. We just pitched today to AMC. Just an idea of doing kind of like a talk show. But it'll be a show that's like the State of the Industry, but on TV.
GM: If you don't sell that standup special that you've already filmed, you can sell it on your website.
AK: That's what I'm going to do. And I'm in line to get Letterman. I was supposed to be on Letterman in September, but everybody kept getting bumped. Some of these guys got bumped like four times. So I'll be on that by the beginning of next year or December. Then I can sell my DVD there. They'll hold it up and then everything is gravy.
GM: Then you can sit back...
AK: Sit back and just watch the hits on the website.
GM: You're known as the comic's comic. Define that for me.
AK: It's kind of along the theory that the only people who have a sense of humour eventually in some point in the future will be comedians. I think it's just that they say I make other comics laugh. Sometimes it's kind of a slam, like, "Oh, he doesn't make the regular audience laugh." But I think the people who normally go to regular comedy clubs, like the mainstream comedy clubs, usually don't have much of a sense of humour. So I'm kind of, not playing to the comics, but the comics can sometimes appreciate it when sometimes the crowds don't know what the hell I'm talking about. And sometimes I will do inside stuff. But I don't think it's that inside, really. It's just kind of perceived that way. I'm doing a bit now about how I'm reading the trades and my agent said, "Don't get the trades; you'll get depressed." There'd be, like, headlines like, "Prop Guy You Worked With in the '80s Inks 7-Figure Deal". "Song Parody Stylist That You Worked On the Road With Heads Sony". And the headline today, "Everybody You Started Out With Doing Slightly To Considerably Better Than You". So that's considered inside? I don't think so.
GM: There's always this worry by people who are in inside that everyone on the outside doesn't know anything. But it's Hollywood! Everyone knows everything about it.
AK: Everybody knows about it. Unless I'm doing a joke about, "Hey, isn't that crazy what Saul Schmegeckle said over at the library in Brentwood?" Like those things.